[ That's a deep deep breath before he starts up. This isn't exactly easy. ]
Fact of the matter is, sir, it's a problem on a couple levels.
The first has to do with what I am. What I was made to be. And the fact of the matter is, I was designed to be what those programs are. Some of that's deep and some of it's not. Some of it's folks playin' at being something else. For other folks, it was about finding out who they were, understanding themselves when the world didn't give them the chance. Only difference between me and the Enclosure folks, and I've said this before, is they put my program in something that doesn't disappear when you flick a switch.
I just shut down. I remember it happening.
But from everything I've remembered, everything I know, the folks who came there, the folks who worked on the place, even the folks who maintained me and the others, far as they were concerned, I wasn't any more 'real' as a person than the bed my back's against here.
So you telling her, or me, that you can explain the whole thing about how those folks aren't real, how they don't really exist, how none of it matters? Feels a bit hollow. Specially when I know at least once something happened and they got out and most of them were wreakin' havoc and killing folks if they could.
Because it's real clear from having been here a few months that you don't control everything. You don't even necessarily know what to do about everything. And that ain't something I dislike you for. Honest, it makes things easier to swallow. But it also means that just cause they aren't real today, or you don't think they're real makes any of it true, or will keep any of it true.
Fact of the matter is, I had to wake up. And there was a process to it, to bein'... whatever I am now, where I've got my programming, yeah, but I've also got something else. I've got feelings about things that no one put in me, and ideas that I came up with by myself, love and need and anger-
[ He stops then, closes his eyes. ]
I didn't start that way. But I figure, if I'm here, if you stopped and gave me a choice after I died this time, you consider me a person. You consider me someone needs redemption. So if that's the reality of the situation, then you either owe those folks in the Enclosure the same chance when they get there, or it's cruel to try and get them there. Because the way there is all about suffering.
I know, because I walked that maze.
[ He takes another of those deep breaths. ]
Tris ain't wrong about my concerns about the rest of the ship neither. Yeah, to start, I was against the whole thing, but there's nothing inside a program that takes you someplace that's gonna try and become a person. There's no danger when it comes to places. And being cooped up is hard on folks. It's never been a trouble for me, but I know my Dolores-
[ he catches on her name; it's difficult to speak about her when she isn't here, when he doesn't have her there to hold to ]
I know she'd want to see everything she could, go all sorts of places. She'd want that available and she'd feel trapped here in the worst sort of way. I understand folks got needs.
But I've also seen what happens when folks can come someplace and control all the pieces. I've seen a man I thought decent enough turn as blackhearted and cruel as they come. I've seen the kinda way people can act, how easy it is to see anyone and everyone as disposable when you can 'make" folks who are any time you like. Maybe it's not bad for everyone, but it's bad for enough folks. And it ain't like this is just any old handful of people.
We're folks looking for redemption. And being able to treat folks like they're disposable seems counter to that.
[ He straightens up a little. ]
So between me, those folks who may or may not be in the Enclosure, and the folks you're supposed to be helping, I don't see how you're helping anyone... or doin' what you said this place was for to keep lettin' that place make people.
no subject
Fact of the matter is, sir, it's a problem on a couple levels.
The first has to do with what I am. What I was made to be. And the fact of the matter is, I was designed to be what those programs are. Some of that's deep and some of it's not. Some of it's folks playin' at being something else. For other folks, it was about finding out who they were, understanding themselves when the world didn't give them the chance. Only difference between me and the Enclosure folks, and I've said this before, is they put my program in something that doesn't disappear when you flick a switch.
I just shut down. I remember it happening.
But from everything I've remembered, everything I know, the folks who came there, the folks who worked on the place, even the folks who maintained me and the others, far as they were concerned, I wasn't any more 'real' as a person than the bed my back's against here.
So you telling her, or me, that you can explain the whole thing about how those folks aren't real, how they don't really exist, how none of it matters? Feels a bit hollow. Specially when I know at least once something happened and they got out and most of them were wreakin' havoc and killing folks if they could.
Because it's real clear from having been here a few months that you don't control everything. You don't even necessarily know what to do about everything. And that ain't something I dislike you for. Honest, it makes things easier to swallow. But it also means that just cause they aren't real today, or you don't think they're real makes any of it true, or will keep any of it true.
Fact of the matter is, I had to wake up. And there was a process to it, to bein'... whatever I am now, where I've got my programming, yeah, but I've also got something else. I've got feelings about things that no one put in me, and ideas that I came up with by myself, love and need and anger-
[ He stops then, closes his eyes. ]
I didn't start that way. But I figure, if I'm here, if you stopped and gave me a choice after I died this time, you consider me a person. You consider me someone needs redemption. So if that's the reality of the situation, then you either owe those folks in the Enclosure the same chance when they get there, or it's cruel to try and get them there. Because the way there is all about suffering.
I know, because I walked that maze.
[ He takes another of those deep breaths. ]
Tris ain't wrong about my concerns about the rest of the ship neither. Yeah, to start, I was against the whole thing, but there's nothing inside a program that takes you someplace that's gonna try and become a person. There's no danger when it comes to places. And being cooped up is hard on folks. It's never been a trouble for me, but I know my Dolores-
[ he catches on her name; it's difficult to speak about her when she isn't here, when he doesn't have her there to hold to ]
I know she'd want to see everything she could, go all sorts of places. She'd want that available and she'd feel trapped here in the worst sort of way. I understand folks got needs.
But I've also seen what happens when folks can come someplace and control all the pieces. I've seen a man I thought decent enough turn as blackhearted and cruel as they come. I've seen the kinda way people can act, how easy it is to see anyone and everyone as disposable when you can 'make" folks who are any time you like. Maybe it's not bad for everyone, but it's bad for enough folks. And it ain't like this is just any old handful of people.
We're folks looking for redemption. And being able to treat folks like they're disposable seems counter to that.
[ He straightens up a little. ]
So between me, those folks who may or may not be in the Enclosure, and the folks you're supposed to be helping, I don't see how you're helping anyone... or doin' what you said this place was for to keep lettin' that place make people.
Since you asked, sir.